Really enjoyed Big J , having focused on my trauma lately as potentially part cause of my cancer diagnosis, paraphrasing Gabor Mate .’ Good people often get cancer, as they withhold their anger , to be seen to be Kind and a good person this then grows inside of them and becomes an illness.’
I feel comfortable with eyes closed and focusing on my Homebase, but fully understand what the other speakers said, how this could be unsettling .
Fascinating debate and would love to have more meditation and discussion on trauma in Homebase. Thanks Geoff
Hi Geoff, thanks for this. Interesting to look at the link between trauma and your cancer diagnosis. I definitely agree there is a relationship between psychological distress and physical health. As a different example, when I get activated in a bipolar way and can’t sleep, my immune system goes to hell, I start to get more sick, and therefore sleep less, and therefore get into more psychological red zones, with more physical and behavioural consequences - and so on.
We all have the potential for these feedback loops, good to get clear how your own system works.
I find this link really interesting too. I’ve recovered from severe post covid syndrome with mind-body approaches and also have read Gabor Mate say similar things as you Geoff F.
I’m a medical dr and am trying to work out how to share a similar message sensitively. It’s not an easy concept to get one’s head around.
I’ve just finished training in transformational coaching to see if it can all be woven in.
I hope your health is improving Geoff. I appreciate you sharing.
I really appreciated this, as someone who has a history of trauma and PTSD. My body is often not a safe space. The first bodily safe space I experienced was when I began training in martial arts. The focus on the form allowed me to connect with how my body felt to move. Meditation can still be hard for me, but I find if I do it with my dog next to me, I can find peace and mindfulness in focusing on the breath moving his chest, the softness of his fur against my hand, the weight of his body against my leg. Having him next to me allows me to be vulnerable, because if something bad was happening in the environment he would alert me. One of my favorite meditations is Carlos Santos’s coffee meditation where the focus on feeling how the coffee cup feels in my hand allows me to be present in my body in a way that doesn’t reignite my trauma and fear, but encourages full presence in the moment. ☕️❤️
Beautiful Melanie. Martial arts and dogs. Two of my favourite embodiment practices! Both more aspirational, but at least getting a dog is something that might happen in the next few years. Becoming an expert at martial arts… Less likely. But I do love my Qi Gong !
Thank you for noting that there are circumstances requiring a break from some types meditation and a more educated approach to which types of meditation are appropriate for some individuals. It is not one size fits all, especially when there is trauma or psychosis in the background.
This is pure gold! I have read about how sometimes meditation practices can be harmful especially to young adolescents. I've wondered if is because there isn't the foundation of skills of self care, self compassion and self love there yet. This makes perfect sense in that same vein. It seems to go hand and hand and I resonate with it deeply. Revisiting trauma over and over in one's mind and body through meditation without the tools and healing to care for oneself appropriately is just reliving trauma over and over. Love this! Thank you
Hi Tracy. That’s interesting about adolescents. I’d like to read that research. The way you say it makes sense. I think of it often as balancing the warrior and the caregiver.
Another great meditation, Jeff. Thank you. I love Tasha's summary at the end. For me, your meditations always feel welcoming, flexible, providing options not just for what might work for different people, but for the same person have good days, bad days, in-between days. With a trauma background, some days are more difficult than others, but this, and most of your meditations, provides a chance to relax and refocus in a way that works for me and restores a sense of peace. 🙏
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I am sorry you have suffered so much 🙏. Jeff, this is something that needs to be discussed in all retreats, not just meditation. I have attended many retreats, some meditation, but 6 years of alternative healing/energy healing training, which amazingly to me I actually graduated! I come from repeated childhood abuses, SPD, empathic, and now dealing with a medical system which doesn’t really get it the complicated chronic genetic conditions and complications that come with it , never knowing until several decades ago, when one of the teachers I was taking classes from introduced us to Peter Levine. He was trained in somatic work, by Peter, and it was a game changer for me. Like you , going through meditation retreats or other alternative healing training, triggered so much, which was completely dismissed by the teachers, and many of my fellow students. The thought was “if you can’t take it, you don’t belong “. I learned trauma informed care. It’s now being spoken about, but it’s still not being practiced. I make it a priority with every healthcare provider I am considering to ask “ do you practice trauma informed care ?” Many who say they do I find out, do not. This really is something that needs to be common practice everywhere. If you’re a human being you have probably had some trauma at some point. Especially in the world we live in today.
Jeff, you truly are a blessing. I am so grateful to have a teacher like you who gets these things. And who brings them into the light so they can be heard and healing can happen.✨💖✨
So helpful to hear this, Laura. I’m sorry for all you’ve gone through. Super appreciate you sharing a bit of your story. It’ll help more people I hope figure out their own complicated healing path.
Thank you for this perspective!! I absolutely relate to the meditation posture bringing up feeling unsafe. You articulated so many things that I have felt and struggled with in meditation and recovery. I love that I can give myself permission to stop. And seek help.
Both grounding and edifying! Context, Choice, Connection— I’m going to borrow that;) Thanks as always, Jeff, for sharing something so authentic and beautiful!
This was a big full circle moment for me. Over a year ago, I discovered you, Jeff, on the Calm App and the polyvagal theory with nervous system understanding and work through coach Sarah Baldwin, and it propelled my self-discovery and self-compassion journey. Since then, the shift I have noticed in myself is more peace, more noticing, and more presence. I am now moving through my time on earth with more poise, feeling more safe, and with more kindness to others, now that I am more kind to myself. In the normal ups and downs of life, the downs feel less overwhelming and are more manageable (which means I trust myself more) and the ups are less addictive (which means I seek more equanimity now).
I hope more people become curious about themselves and their bodies and consider looking through the polyvagal lens. It’s been an amazing light switch for me.
What an incredibly helpful report Roxanne, I so appreciate hearing this and I’m glad you found more regulation and sanity through this practice and through Stevens work. ❤️❤️.
Once again, I relate to a lot of what you said. The recycling advice takes a while to click and my own experience with it improved only when I too found the right therapist to work my trauma through. Treleaven's book was amazingly validating when I found it early on because like with everything I blamed myself for "failing" at meditation too because things didn't seem to be calming down. Oh, what a journey, what a journey! When people ask me about meditation, I can't help but smile - where do I begin to explain? 😄
In addition to Peter Levine, I also found Pete Walker's work on Complex Trauma immensely helpful. It tied in right with my own somatic work and helped process and integrate a lot of what I was holding in my body. Gym these days feels like home. 💖 Thank you for everything you do! Much metta to everyone.
Hi Nethra,I read that Pete Walker book too, it was great. The recycling advice is super important and it works well in many many cases it is a big part of my own teaching. But as you say, you may have to do some initial work to clear a path.
Thanks for this. I find grounding practices first: Before going into stillness, using breath, touch, or noticing surroundings (like “5 things I can see, 4 I can feel...”) can keep my body anchored. When I’m stressed I start with just a few minutes, instead of long sits, helps avoid overwhelm.
How about movement like tai chi ? That often feels safer than being still. I also have to trust myself. Learning to honor “this is too much right now” instead of judging myself or my practice.
Such a good convo. Thanks especially, Jeff, for being so open about your experience with your own nervous system and trauma. It took me years to find a method (Dzogchen) that is helpful with my anxiety and PTSD, but in the past I tried other methods that made my symptoms worse. It seems like what’s good medicine for one person acts like a poison for someone else, and it’s good to keep that in mind. Glad that mental health is being more acknowledged in these spaces. Thanks y’all!
Super excited to hear people taking this subject on, and I was already a Porges fan; no clarinet playing for my vagus nerve, but I figured out long ago that singing is my vagus stress reliever.
Like you, Jeff, I have the ADHD-bipolar-trauma thing going on. As a young woman I attempted suicide during what seemed like an amazing meditation session. You're right. Some of us are not meant to sit on our butts on cushions, nor to have seated-cushion people imply that we are somehow inferior for not being a good match with this practice.
Dance-meditation, sing-meditation, laundry-meditation, walk-in-the-woods meditation, giving-a-Tarot-reading meditation... these are all legit!
Kristin Neff addresses this in a different way in her self-compassion books (the latest on Burnout is fantastic). She calls it "backdraft" in self-compassion terms and it is tricky. She talks about how self-compassion can be like adding oxygen to a fire, hence backdraft. The self-compassion is still a good thing, but you end up more stressed than before. The self-compassion may cause other things to be exposed that create stress or difficult reactions. I can think of many things that are deeper than they seem initially. I have found similar challenges with meditation. Equanimity tells me to recognize what is floating around and to allow it to hang out. Sometimes one of those things is actually a door into a tough place with history and trauma. In both cases proceed cautiously and you can always come back. Neff warns about going after something too big as you experiment with self-compassion and also says you can pull back out. The human mind is so fascinating and frustrating!
meditation isn’t about just sitting with the breath and pushing away thoughts. Trauma-informed mindfulness and meditation practices are important. Many people have experienced situations that have left a mark, be it a passing memory or a life-changing trauma. Meditation can bring up the difficult memories of these experiences and with practice, we can see them clearly and heal the inner wounds.
Really enjoyed Big J , having focused on my trauma lately as potentially part cause of my cancer diagnosis, paraphrasing Gabor Mate .’ Good people often get cancer, as they withhold their anger , to be seen to be Kind and a good person this then grows inside of them and becomes an illness.’
I feel comfortable with eyes closed and focusing on my Homebase, but fully understand what the other speakers said, how this could be unsettling .
Fascinating debate and would love to have more meditation and discussion on trauma in Homebase. Thanks Geoff
Hi Geoff, thanks for this. Interesting to look at the link between trauma and your cancer diagnosis. I definitely agree there is a relationship between psychological distress and physical health. As a different example, when I get activated in a bipolar way and can’t sleep, my immune system goes to hell, I start to get more sick, and therefore sleep less, and therefore get into more psychological red zones, with more physical and behavioural consequences - and so on.
We all have the potential for these feedback loops, good to get clear how your own system works.
Always nice to hear from you friend.
I find this link really interesting too. I’ve recovered from severe post covid syndrome with mind-body approaches and also have read Gabor Mate say similar things as you Geoff F.
I’m a medical dr and am trying to work out how to share a similar message sensitively. It’s not an easy concept to get one’s head around.
I’ve just finished training in transformational coaching to see if it can all be woven in.
I hope your health is improving Geoff. I appreciate you sharing.
Thanks so much Sarah .. I wish you every success in this and really appreciate your response. 🙏🏼🦋
I’m interested in how you recovered from Covid, I’m currently in recovery and while physically I’m fine it has affected
my mindset
Thanks so much Big J that makes so much sense and know just what you mean .. feedback loops ! Go easy my friend 🦋
I really appreciated this, as someone who has a history of trauma and PTSD. My body is often not a safe space. The first bodily safe space I experienced was when I began training in martial arts. The focus on the form allowed me to connect with how my body felt to move. Meditation can still be hard for me, but I find if I do it with my dog next to me, I can find peace and mindfulness in focusing on the breath moving his chest, the softness of his fur against my hand, the weight of his body against my leg. Having him next to me allows me to be vulnerable, because if something bad was happening in the environment he would alert me. One of my favorite meditations is Carlos Santos’s coffee meditation where the focus on feeling how the coffee cup feels in my hand allows me to be present in my body in a way that doesn’t reignite my trauma and fear, but encourages full presence in the moment. ☕️❤️
Beautiful Melanie. Martial arts and dogs. Two of my favourite embodiment practices! Both more aspirational, but at least getting a dog is something that might happen in the next few years. Becoming an expert at martial arts… Less likely. But I do love my Qi Gong !
Thank you for noting that there are circumstances requiring a break from some types meditation and a more educated approach to which types of meditation are appropriate for some individuals. It is not one size fits all, especially when there is trauma or psychosis in the background.
Well, said Bruce
This is pure gold! I have read about how sometimes meditation practices can be harmful especially to young adolescents. I've wondered if is because there isn't the foundation of skills of self care, self compassion and self love there yet. This makes perfect sense in that same vein. It seems to go hand and hand and I resonate with it deeply. Revisiting trauma over and over in one's mind and body through meditation without the tools and healing to care for oneself appropriately is just reliving trauma over and over. Love this! Thank you
Hi Tracy. That’s interesting about adolescents. I’d like to read that research. The way you say it makes sense. I think of it often as balancing the warrior and the caregiver.
Another great meditation, Jeff. Thank you. I love Tasha's summary at the end. For me, your meditations always feel welcoming, flexible, providing options not just for what might work for different people, but for the same person have good days, bad days, in-between days. With a trauma background, some days are more difficult than others, but this, and most of your meditations, provides a chance to relax and refocus in a way that works for me and restores a sense of peace. 🙏
Very glad to hear it Beth and validating too!
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I am sorry you have suffered so much 🙏. Jeff, this is something that needs to be discussed in all retreats, not just meditation. I have attended many retreats, some meditation, but 6 years of alternative healing/energy healing training, which amazingly to me I actually graduated! I come from repeated childhood abuses, SPD, empathic, and now dealing with a medical system which doesn’t really get it the complicated chronic genetic conditions and complications that come with it , never knowing until several decades ago, when one of the teachers I was taking classes from introduced us to Peter Levine. He was trained in somatic work, by Peter, and it was a game changer for me. Like you , going through meditation retreats or other alternative healing training, triggered so much, which was completely dismissed by the teachers, and many of my fellow students. The thought was “if you can’t take it, you don’t belong “. I learned trauma informed care. It’s now being spoken about, but it’s still not being practiced. I make it a priority with every healthcare provider I am considering to ask “ do you practice trauma informed care ?” Many who say they do I find out, do not. This really is something that needs to be common practice everywhere. If you’re a human being you have probably had some trauma at some point. Especially in the world we live in today.
Jeff, you truly are a blessing. I am so grateful to have a teacher like you who gets these things. And who brings them into the light so they can be heard and healing can happen.✨💖✨
So helpful to hear this, Laura. I’m sorry for all you’ve gone through. Super appreciate you sharing a bit of your story. It’ll help more people I hope figure out their own complicated healing path.
Nice to be connected always
Thank you for this perspective!! I absolutely relate to the meditation posture bringing up feeling unsafe. You articulated so many things that I have felt and struggled with in meditation and recovery. I love that I can give myself permission to stop. And seek help.
❤️
Both grounding and edifying! Context, Choice, Connection— I’m going to borrow that;) Thanks as always, Jeff, for sharing something so authentic and beautiful!
I love those three Cs too and found them helpful
The 3 Cs!!! As a therapist, I’m totally going to borrow this 🙏🏽
You articulate the many struggles within.
The reframing you irreverently proposed , buoyed the abyssal depths feelings of inadequacy and sinked hopes.
From that bottom of my failed , failing and falling constantly body and mind, realize I actually can't do it without.
Thank you.
From the bottom of my heart.
This was a big full circle moment for me. Over a year ago, I discovered you, Jeff, on the Calm App and the polyvagal theory with nervous system understanding and work through coach Sarah Baldwin, and it propelled my self-discovery and self-compassion journey. Since then, the shift I have noticed in myself is more peace, more noticing, and more presence. I am now moving through my time on earth with more poise, feeling more safe, and with more kindness to others, now that I am more kind to myself. In the normal ups and downs of life, the downs feel less overwhelming and are more manageable (which means I trust myself more) and the ups are less addictive (which means I seek more equanimity now).
I hope more people become curious about themselves and their bodies and consider looking through the polyvagal lens. It’s been an amazing light switch for me.
What an incredibly helpful report Roxanne, I so appreciate hearing this and I’m glad you found more regulation and sanity through this practice and through Stevens work. ❤️❤️.
Once again, I relate to a lot of what you said. The recycling advice takes a while to click and my own experience with it improved only when I too found the right therapist to work my trauma through. Treleaven's book was amazingly validating when I found it early on because like with everything I blamed myself for "failing" at meditation too because things didn't seem to be calming down. Oh, what a journey, what a journey! When people ask me about meditation, I can't help but smile - where do I begin to explain? 😄
In addition to Peter Levine, I also found Pete Walker's work on Complex Trauma immensely helpful. It tied in right with my own somatic work and helped process and integrate a lot of what I was holding in my body. Gym these days feels like home. 💖 Thank you for everything you do! Much metta to everyone.
Hi Nethra,I read that Pete Walker book too, it was great. The recycling advice is super important and it works well in many many cases it is a big part of my own teaching. But as you say, you may have to do some initial work to clear a path.
Thanks for this. I find grounding practices first: Before going into stillness, using breath, touch, or noticing surroundings (like “5 things I can see, 4 I can feel...”) can keep my body anchored. When I’m stressed I start with just a few minutes, instead of long sits, helps avoid overwhelm.
How about movement like tai chi ? That often feels safer than being still. I also have to trust myself. Learning to honor “this is too much right now” instead of judging myself or my practice.
Such a good convo. Thanks especially, Jeff, for being so open about your experience with your own nervous system and trauma. It took me years to find a method (Dzogchen) that is helpful with my anxiety and PTSD, but in the past I tried other methods that made my symptoms worse. It seems like what’s good medicine for one person acts like a poison for someone else, and it’s good to keep that in mind. Glad that mental health is being more acknowledged in these spaces. Thanks y’all!
Super excited to hear people taking this subject on, and I was already a Porges fan; no clarinet playing for my vagus nerve, but I figured out long ago that singing is my vagus stress reliever.
Like you, Jeff, I have the ADHD-bipolar-trauma thing going on. As a young woman I attempted suicide during what seemed like an amazing meditation session. You're right. Some of us are not meant to sit on our butts on cushions, nor to have seated-cushion people imply that we are somehow inferior for not being a good match with this practice.
Dance-meditation, sing-meditation, laundry-meditation, walk-in-the-woods meditation, giving-a-Tarot-reading meditation... these are all legit!
Kristin Neff addresses this in a different way in her self-compassion books (the latest on Burnout is fantastic). She calls it "backdraft" in self-compassion terms and it is tricky. She talks about how self-compassion can be like adding oxygen to a fire, hence backdraft. The self-compassion is still a good thing, but you end up more stressed than before. The self-compassion may cause other things to be exposed that create stress or difficult reactions. I can think of many things that are deeper than they seem initially. I have found similar challenges with meditation. Equanimity tells me to recognize what is floating around and to allow it to hang out. Sometimes one of those things is actually a door into a tough place with history and trauma. In both cases proceed cautiously and you can always come back. Neff warns about going after something too big as you experiment with self-compassion and also says you can pull back out. The human mind is so fascinating and frustrating!
Oh yes! Thank you for this reminder
meditation isn’t about just sitting with the breath and pushing away thoughts. Trauma-informed mindfulness and meditation practices are important. Many people have experienced situations that have left a mark, be it a passing memory or a life-changing trauma. Meditation can bring up the difficult memories of these experiences and with practice, we can see them clearly and heal the inner wounds.
Great summary!